In this episode, organic chemistry Professor Scott Snyder discusses his career path to becoming a faculty at the University of Chicago. He describes science as "in his DNA" and discusses first falling in love with organic chemistry as an undergrad, a fruitful Ph.D. experience, and a professional career path that has included teaching at Columbia University, Scripps Research Institute, and now at the University of Chicago. Listen to Professor Snyder share how he juggles his various hats from co-authoring textbooks, leading a research lab, and working in an administrative role, but continues to enjoy organic chemistry though movies, the kitchen, and exercising.
In this episode, organic chemistry Professor Scott Snyder discusses his career path to becoming a faculty at the University of Chicago. He describes science as "in his DNA" and discusses first falling in love with organic chemistry as an undergrad, a fruitful Ph.D. experience, and a professional career path that has included teaching at Columbia University, Scripps Research Institute, and now at the University of Chicago. Listen to Professor Snyder share how he juggles his various hats from co-authoring textbooks, leading a research lab, and working in an administrative role, but continues to enjoy organic chemistry though movies, the kitchen, and exercising.
Martha 00:00
Hello, and welcome to The Course. I'm your host today, Martha, and I'm speaking with Professor Scott Snyder from the Department of Chemistry at University of Chicago. Professor Snyder has a PhD from The Scripps Research Institute, has worked as a postdoctoral fellow at Harvard University, has been the recipient of multiple professional accolades, and is viewed as a leading figure in the chemical education space and as a co-author of Organic Chemistry published by John Wiley and Sons, which is used by undergraduates throughout the world.
He's here to talk with us about his career path and how he became a University of Chicago professor.
Welcome to The Course, Professor Snyder.
Scott Snyder 00:38
Thank you so much, Martha. I really appreciate it. It's a pleasure to be here.
Martha 00:41
Wonderful. Well, so, obviously now you have established yourself in this career path, but let's go back to a bit of the origin story. So, even in childhood, it seems like you came from a pretty science and math forward family. I'd love to know a little bit about that.
Scott Snyder 00:57
Yeah, I think you definitely could say science and math is in my DNA. So my mom was a high school math teacher specializing in teaching calculus. And my father was a professor of biochemistry at the State University of New York and Buffalo. And so, I remember just as a kid really enjoying doing math problems period and in particular going into my dad's laboratory where he would set up little flasks and some food coloring and he'd let me just play safely in his lab with whatever it was that I wanted.
And then, you know, by the time I got to high school and actually took chemistry, I don't know if it was the colors of the reactions or the fact that we did get to use math as well as do science at the same time, but it just kind of clicked and it was kind of from then on that I was really in love with the subject.
Martha 01:35
Yeah, do you remember specifically what kinds of experiments you would tinker with in that lab?
Scott Snyder 01:41
I do remember one thing which now we would view as entirely unsafe from back then.
So my dad let me play with liquid mercury and it was really just kind of cool to carry that and hold that in my hand. I just thought that was really fascinating. I'm not going to let my own kids do that. But it was just some experiences like that. I mean, that was, that's really the type of thing I remember.
Martha 02:01
Yeah, and at that time, were you at all seeing chemistry as a potential career path, or was it still mostly just something that was, you know, fun to think about and intellectual stimulating?
Scott Snyder 02:12
It's probably a little bit more of the latter. I think if, first, when I went to college, actually, for whatever reason, I thought about being a pre-med student. I don't quite know why that seemed logical because I've always been afraid of blood, so that's probably not the best choice for that particular career path.
But definitely I thought like, you know, I had interest in law, I had interest in other things based on other activities I had done as a high school student. I think maybe what solidified my desire to go specifically to chemistry was two things: I had had the chance actually to do research as a high school student, it was more on the biochemistry side, but I think that just got me excited that that maybe is the type of career that I wanted to do.
And then the second, which is kind of an odd experience. I actually went to a summer camp for chemistry. So, I was fortunate enough to do pretty well in a national exam. And so, I got to go to the United States Chemistry Olympiad study camp, which was held at the Air Force Academy. And so there was kind of actually the first time I got any training specifically in what I do now, which is organic chemistry.
And so, I think just being around some like minded fellow undergrad, fellow high school students who really enjoyed chemistry, really kind of just started to send me on that path.
Martha 03:20
Yeah. What kinds of things were you doing at that camp?
Scott Snyder 03:24
So it's kind of weird because it's not the type of chemistry that you would normally do like elsewhere. So, I mean, like, you know, you do titrations and things in high school chemistry labs. There, it's like, how can you do the fastest titration with the most accuracy? So, it's kind of like an Olympic speed race to do chemistry, plus, you know, knowledge-based questions and things.
You know, so it was, it's lots of different things just from technical labs, just like classroom, you know, things, but really kind of pushing beyond the boundaries of what you would typically do in a high school setting. Kind of is a weird irony, this camp became the basis for my first discussion with my wife.
So I actually met my wife the very first day of college, and it turns out one of the other campers, the only other camper from the state of New York, I grew up in Buffalo, New York, happened to be in her homeroom. So that was the basis of the first discussion.
Martha 04:11
Wow. And where, where did you go to undergrad?
Scott Snyder 04:14
Yeah, so I was an undergraduate at Williams College, which is a small liberal arts school in Western Massachusetts. It was a great place to go just both to learn, and, you know, in terms of research there, pretty much it was one or two students at most with most of the faculty. And so, you got really, really strong attention.
And so, I took organic chemistry there as a first year. And absolutely, you know, immediately just fell in love with the subject. And that's when I kind of realized, like, pre-med was not the path for me. And so far as my friends in the class who were pre-med didn't seem to be enjoying the subject, I really was.
And so, you know, kind of from there, just that, that became it. That's what I wanted to do for the rest of my life.
Martha 04:51
And what is it, or what was it at that time about organic chemistry that made you fall in love with it?
Scott Snyder 04:59
So I think if you've ever, like seen, you know, molecular structures drawn out as a professional chemist would draw them, they're very artistic. So, I think there was just something inherent about, like, the three dimensionality of things and holding things that, to me, made it feel artistic. And so that kind of reflected that part of things.
I like the idea of being able to take, you know, some starting material A and then making something B. And then in particular, the idea that I could make something either that didn't exist or had never been made. form. I thought that was kind of really, really cool. And maybe it's just at a weird level, just like how organic chemistry works, always kind of at some level made sense to me.
And so, you know, it just seemed like it was fun. It never seemed like work to me overall.
Martha 05:43
Yeah, and so in that undergrad time, you're falling in love with organic chemistry. It seems pretty clear, this is, you know, this is the way you're going to go. Were there any, you know, mentors or, you know, professors at that stage that were really helping you shape an idea of what you could possibly do with it?
Scott Snyder 06:00
Yeah, I just had fantastic instructors, you know, both in high school and in college. And I think that that was kind of a key factor behind why it is I did what I ended up doing in part and maybe as a side story, I unfortunately did not have the world's best economics professor or teacher, excuse me, in high school. And it wasn't until my senior year, as a consequence of that, that I then took economics again, and I actually loved it So, you know, maybe it all shows, I mean, just little influences at different points in time can send you different directions.
But I think what was really awesome about those instructors was again, they just made the subject fun. And so, it's something that I kind of reflected my own teaching now is, you know, yes, there's a need to impart knowledge and a need to impart critical thinking skills. But, you know, there's a lot of fun that can be had if you kind of understand how organic chemistry works.
Martha 06:47
Yeah, cool. So all right. So after you graduated from undergrad, yeah, where did the path take you from there?
Scott Snyder 07:02
So I had an whole array of research experiences as an undergraduate, including working in a pharmaceutical company over one summer, working in a couple of different labs as an undergraduate. And so I decided to attend the Scripps Research Institute for graduate school, and that's a place that maybe many of you have not necessarily heard of, but it's the world's largest private research nonprofit research institute in the world. So it's located in California. So, it's a beautiful place to be. And I went there because they just have an incredibly strong program, particularly in organic chemistry. And then also in the allied area of chemical biology, which might be like how people would explore, how a molecule for instance, might actually behave if it was in a biochemical system, meaning could this be like a new treatment for cancer or new antibiotic for instance, and so.
Martha 07:41
I see.
Scott Snyder 07:42
So I went to work with a guy named K. C. Nicolaou, who is a world leader in that field. And so my specialty is what's called natural products synthesis, and so what this means is we are making molecules that come from nature, they might come from bacteria, from tree bark, from a leaf, from some sea organism, like a sponge, for instance.
And so these are molecules that have both really cool structures. And so what that's going to do is test our ability in a laboratory setting to make them. But what they also have are very important biochemical properties. And so many of these compounds have the potential to be drugs, say to treat cancer or to become a new antibacterial, et cetera.
And so it's kind of predicated on the idea that in fact of the top 20 selling drugs on the market today, over half of them either come from nature or derived from molecules that come from nature. So many of our therapies come from that.
Martha 08:31
Very cool. And that, that does not surprise me at all. I keep thinking, you know, I think of, you know, I think modern medicine is amazing, but if you look around, it's like all the stuff we need is really here. We just have to figure out, you know, how it works. I think.
Scott Snyder 08:45
No, totally. And I mean, a concern for that. So there's a good film. So movies are one of my other passions. I've actually watched a movie almost every day, to be honest with you. But there's a movie called Medicine Man, which stars Sean Connery, that's kind of about this. And so, he goes down into the forest of the Amazon, and he's searching for treatment for cancer.
And, you know, I was able to find this in a molecule that, you know, is an answer something in the area of the Brazilian rainforest where he is. And then at the end of the movie, this area where he's working is destroyed by trucks that come through who are trying to develop the Amazon rainforest. And so, as species now are going extinct at increasing rates, this is a point of concern.
We could be just throwing away treatments for disease and we don't even know what they are.
Martha 09:26
Yep. Yep. I mean, that makes perfect sense to me. And it also, as you're describing that it seems like you actually did figure out like a bloodless way to be adjacent to the medical field.
Scott Snyder 09:39
No, that's true. I, that's absolutely right. Yeah. Oh, you know, I said a lot of my collaborations now are with MD, PhDs. So it's, you know,
Martha 09:44
Yeah. So at Scripps, were you able to get your master's and PhD simultaneously? Was it one of those programs?
Scott Snyder 09:51
Scripps actually had no master's degree. So it was kind of PhD only. So yeah. So, five years did that, and then I ended up going to Harvard and I worked for a guy named E.J. Corey. So he was actually my boss's postdoctoral mentor. He was the recipient of the 1990 Nobel Prize in Chemistry. And it was really a, both really great experiences.
Each one of them taught me very different things. So I would say like my PhD advisor, I think, gave me a great 10, 000 foot view, you know: what's an important problem? What's a broad way to think about it? My postdoc supervisor was very much about how do you fix something? How do you improve something really more granular?
And I feel like I needed both aspects, you know, to be successful as an academic and to train other students.
Martha 10:33
That makes sense. And so, in that postdoctoral program, were you starting to work with undergrads for the first time in a, not necessarily professorial capacity, but like working with students?
Scott Snyder 10:46
There was one additional undergraduate who had been there. I mean, that's true. So as a graduate student, I never really had the chance to teach. As an undergrad, I had TA'd for seven semesters, and so, I knew, I think, you know, as I was going through the end of my PhD and my postdoc, that I wanted the opportunity, minimally, to be able to mentor others.
And, you know, I thought, for a time about working in the pharmaceutical industry, but ultimately I felt while those problems are deeply exciting and there's no question you would have benefit to human health and have an impact on society, I really wanted to be able to teach more students. And so, you know, when I applied to jobs, I said, if it can be at one of these, you know, places where I think I can really test and evaluate the program I want to run, then I'll go ahead and do it.
And so, I was fortunate in 2006, I started my academic career at Columbia University as an assistant professor.
Martha 11:35
And, well, yeah, what was that like? So, you know, starting to, you know, really teach for the, you know, I guess you would, you would TA'd in undergrad, but knowing that you wanted to do this, you want it to mentor, you want it to teach, and then you actually start doing it, what did, what was the learning curve like there?
What did you learn about teaching at Columbia?
Scott Snyder 11:54
Yeah, so a lot of different experiences overall. I mean, it just maybe before teaching, I do remember my very first day as faculty. So I was, you know, coming in, you know, all this equipment had already been ordered, you know, I was coming in from the outside to kind of come and set it up. And so, I wasn't dressed very nicely.
I was probably wearing my T shirts with holes in it from chemical stains, you know, in bad jeans. And so, I come in and they're like, oh, well, what group are you in? And I said, oh, I'm part of the Snyder group. And they're like, what group is that? And so, then I explained, you know who I was, what was going on.
It was all good from there. But it was kind of weird when I, you know, got to my faculty office and then closed the door for the first time and I felt alone. You know, and that was kind of an awe inspiring, you know, thing that, you know, it's like you're building a city, so to speak, and you may have a plan, right, but it's kind of a brick at a time. And so it's, you know, it was, it was a fun adventure to do that.
As relates to teaching, you know, I remember my very first week there, maybe this was allied to how I was dressed because I was setting things up. A senior colleague, a very famous chemist named Ron Breslow, who sadly since passed away, you know, came up to me and he said, this is my paraphrased version of it, “Son, you look like you're 12. And so, it's really important that you, you know, wear a dress shirt and a tie. Otherwise, students won't take you seriously.” And so, as a consequence of that, every time I teach that is my uniform, is a dress shirt and tie. It's kind of like my lab coat and gloves and glasses, you know, in the lab.
And so, you know what I did, I had the pleasure. At least I didn't start teaching undergrads immediately. It wasn't until the spring semester that I did so. And so, I watched my colleagues teach classes to see what it was like to teach in a huge classroom. I read all of the rate my professor comments, which actually was useful because you could kind of learn what students thought was useful and what wasn't.
You know, and then off to the races, you know, taught my first large class of 200 students and at Columbia it's a really amazing classroom that they have. It's actually featured in a lot of movies. Julia Roberts has taught in there. They've had Malcolm X film was part of that classroom. So it's really just a cool historic room and like when we're in there, like you feel like you just really have to kind of rise to the occasion because it is just like this amazing lecture space. Replete with these huge chalkboards and, you know.
Martha 14:09
Yeah, I don't know if I'm imagining the exact one, but there, there is sort of that stereotypical, especially like science university classroom that I've seen in a bunch of movies. I'm like, I think I am imagining the right thing.
Scott Snyder 14:23
Right. Yeah. This big, big, tiered room, you know, and everyone looking at you and like, you know, thinking you're the expert, which is scary. I mean, the other way that I try to think about or keep myself honest, you know, even now is to say to myself, probably each student is, you know, paying the university roughly $100 for my class, you know?
So is my class actually worth $20,000? I don't think so, you know, but right, but it's something at least to aspire to, right? To be honest about what it is you're trying to do.
Martha 14:48
Well, yeah, and it seems like, you know, you're also flipping the lens and making sure you are, you know, considering what you're doing through the vantage point of the student.
Scott Snyder 14:58
Yes. Yeah. I mean, so what I tried to, you know, I mean, right, I have to teach certain things and I think, you know, at some places, organic chemistry can feel like, you know, I'm teaching you how to read the dictionary. There are a lot of terms on the things and I think that's not what's exciting about it. And so I try to make sure that whatever it is I teach in any given class that there's kind of, you know, some reference to how a problem has been solved overall within the general sphere of things.
You know, so I mean, these aren't just reactions or things that we're learning in a vacuum, right? This might be how table sugar was converted into Splenda, things like that. And then I try to bring in my pop culture references with movies and things like that. Although, sadly, there's very few movies that have organic chemistry within it.
Martha 15:38
Yeah, I'm trying to think what would be one example? Can you think of an example of that?
Scott Snyder 15:42
Yeah, the best and my favorite is the movie Good Will Hunting, and so that came out in 1996, actually the year I was taking organic chemistry as an undergraduate. So I mean Will Hunting’s specialty, he's supposed to be this math wizard, but there's this point in the film where he's dating Skyler, who's a senior at Harvard, who somehow already got into medical school, even though she's taking organic chemistry. But he's apparently really good at organic chemistry and they have a discussion about it. He helps her with her homework so that she's able to go out and have a coffee with him.
Martha 16:09
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, so, you know, you know, starting to learn, you know, how to keep things interesting to students, how to make them accessible. How does this lead you into the field of textbook generation?
Scott Snyder 16:27
So I as a graduate student, I had a chance with my mentor in my last year to work on a book with him. And part of that was just due to a couple of factors. One, timing; so my main project had finished, and so rather than starting something brand new, that was what I was interested in. And in addition, I think, you know, my writing style kind of matched his and his approach, and so we kind of became a natural team. So, I was always interested in it.
But how it started for an undergraduate book was frankly, just by talking to the sales reps from the different companies that would come by. And as I've kind of come to learn since most faculty, sadly don't tend to talk to the sales reps. But just as a consequence of those discussions and just kind of my interest in teaching, you know, I thought maybe this would be a way to have a bigger influence.
And so, in around 2011, I joined the author team for this book, Organic Chemistry. My co-authors, at the time, were Graham Solomons and Craig Fryhle. And it was just, you know, a neat experience to get to be involved in that, and to think about in a different way, you know, how does one present material so that others can understand it.
Martha 17:30
Yeah, and I mean, how does one how does one get that job? Were they also at Columbia, is this something you just sort of apply for like a regular position?
Scott Snyder 17:39
Yeah. No. Well, you had, I had to apply in a sense. So. Graham Solomons was at the University of South Florida and Craig Fryhle was at Pacific Lutheran University in Seattle. And so, you know, they were the existing author team. And so, they kind of interviewed me, you know, just to see whether or not there was a match that made sense or, you know, I kind of talked about things where I thought I could add to the book and, you know kind of compliment its overall already high level of strength. And, you know, it's become a long relationship since then, which has really been, you know, quite interesting, especially through all the turmoil and changes that have happened both due to covid and just the publicity in general.
Martha 18:14
Yeah. What is, is there an example of one of those contributions where you really felt like, you know, this is something that I am bringing to the table here?
Scott Snyder 18:24
Yeah, so I mean, I think it again goes back to kind of my research experience. So, I think, you know, most of the authors of these books and all are very talented. Many of them teach only and don't have a research component to their program. And so, I think what I've been able to do, you know, sometimes these are like the little extra boxes that I'm not sure students always necessarily read, you know, or things at the end of a chapter, but might explain like, well, this is how this, you know, led to a COVID vaccine, or this is how chemists were able to design a molecule that could target DNA selectively.
So I'm able to kind of bring in some of the newest research and write problems based around research, just due to kind of my familiarity with that aspect of the literature.
Martha 19:05
Cool. And again, it seems like those examples are all things, you know, if I imagine there are times where undergrads have had the thought to themselves, why am I learning any of this? What is the point? And it seems like those make very clear allusions to like these grounded ways in which here, you know, like here is what we actually got from that knowledge or that research.
Scott Snyder 19:25
Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, you know, at the end of the day, right? I mean, if I teach 200 students, right, there's no world in which all 200 of them are going to become professional organic chemists. Right? But, you know, but hopefully if I can teach them to become better problem solvers or better critical thinkers now, at minimum, right?
Most are going to become voting members of democratic societies, right? At least scientifically informed. And so, right. You know, sometimes in classes, I'll give examples of some molecules and I kind of ask them, like, well, imagine you were an expert witness in a patent case, you know, what would you say about this?
I mean, so these are things that, like, if you just look at it, you might have a knee jerk response and be like, oh, well, you know, no, we shouldn't approve that, or that's bad, you know, but then if you think about it, well, maybe actually it's different. There's a reason why it's different. So, you know, things like that I hope at least excite students. I know if I was a student, I think that would have, you know, excited me if I had heard those things.
Martha 20:14
Yeah, well, yeah, so, you're doing all this exciting stuff at Columbia, you're teaching. How does your career path lead you to the University of Chicago?
Scott Snyder 20:23
Yeah. So I did a way stop in 2013 through 2015 at the Scripps Research Institute. So, my alma mater called me back. This time was on, they had a Florida campus as well, where they were trying to establish further scientific strength, so I was there for a couple of years. And then in 2015, Chicago called and asked if I would come here.
And so given the strength of the college and all the things that were going on, you know, at this place, all the investment in science period, I thought it was a really exciting opportunity. I've been here and I've been here ever since.
Martha 20:53
Nice. It's also nice to have the job come to you.
Scott Snyder 20:56
Absolutely, always. You know, can't complain about that.
Martha 20:59
Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, what, what is it like you said that was 2015 or
Scott Snyder 21:04
Correct. Yeah, 2015
Martha 21:05
Yeah. So what, what has your time at UChicago been like? What have you, you know, in what ways have you grown and learned and forged ahead in your own path?
Scott Snyder 21:14
So I'd say, you know, there's lots of chances for growth. I mean, I think any time you move a location, and that's a lot of work, so I almost feel like I have a PhD in logistics, too, having moved my lab twice.
But, it's a chance maybe to rethink problems and rethink about what you want to be focused on. You know, reassess, you know, is this the most impactful science that I could be doing? I think that's one area that can have some influence.
I've been deeply impressed by the UChicago undergrads in particular. I remember my very first week here with absolutely no reputation on campus. I had never taught any class. I already had two students who were lining up to do research both of whom did great work with me and ultimately went on to chemical grad school and already graduated, that tells you how long I've been here. And I remember, like, my very first class, I got teaching remarks that I had never received before, which was that my classes apparently were too easy. And so UChicago students actually wanted harder science classes. I'm like, okay, we can do that.
Martha 22:12
Was that a surprise to you to receive those comments?
Scott Snyder 22:15
A little bit. I don't know if that was representative of the whole, but just to receive it in part I thought was interesting.
I guess what I've been, you know, I've really felt students here on the sciences in particular, they want to be challenged and they expect that challenge. And so, you know, that has not been my experience everywhere.
Martha 22:31
Yeah. Very cool. So, you know, now you've been at a variety of institutions, you're writing textbooks, you're doing research, you're teaching. Is there anything about either the work itself or the world of academia that you really just could not have known before you know, before you walked, walked the walk. Any big surprises?
Scott Snyder 22:54
I think for me, it's been a couple things. I think, you know, the major change versus being a student, and I think you start to experience this a little bit in graduate school, right, is that there's not good quote stopping points, right? It's not like you take your final exam and you're done. You know, in other words, as my postdoc mentor would say, discovery knows no vacation, you know, so there's always an opportunity to grow. There's always an opportunity to do something. Your inbox is never empty. And so I think it's a little bit about as a young scientist, I definitely wanted to run a marathon at sprint speed and you have to learn that that's not going to work and how to slow that down, so I think that's one thing I've definitely learned.
I think you also don't always appreciate where a project will go. You can have hope that a project is a good project if you've picked a good problem. But you know, once it gets into the hands of students, you will be amazed at the new directions that it can go when they take ownership of their projects.
And it's been particularly exciting as a mentor just to see how students grow. You know, I think every student, when they come and I meet with them in the beginning and you see their enthusiasm, I have hopes and dreams for what it is that they'll accomplish. And when they go way beyond that, it's just so exciting, you know, to be able to see and to share in that and then to see them, you know, in their achievements in their own professional lives afterwards. So I think when I began, I didn't have that sense of that whole trajectory. You know, but now that I've been in here 17 years, you know, that's, that's good to see.
I think, you know, the sad part that I didn't realize is just how much or how quickly I would be divorced from bench science and so far as like doing it myself. You know, so I have to live vicariously through my students and what they do. That may be why I've taken up cooking as a hobby. So I feel like I can do a little bit of chemistry at home. You know, so it's just, it's a different feeling.
Martha 24:40
Yeah, well, yeah. And that also brings up, you know, you're talking about, you know, get in being in the kitchen and things like that. And also I thought it was really notable when you said, you know, discovery knows no vacations. What does that look like in your life in terms of work, like work life balance and making sure you are, you know, engaged with things that you really want to be doing through your work and also outside of it.
Scott Snyder 25:04
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, what it is, I think, for me, is trying to keep at a balance, things like an office space, like filling out the cover sheet to your TPS reports. You know, all academia has some level of that, right? I mean, there's just work you have to do, you know, just maintain funding, do other things.
I'm not saying that that's not unimportant, but it's not exciting, right? And so, I think it's making sure that just every day there's a certain part that's really devoted to the exciting part. You know, so now I'm an administrator on campus. I'm really blessed to have the opportunity to work for the physical sciences division as a Deputy Dean.
And so I make sure every day I, I just literally have to carve out a couple hours in my schedule to make sure I have some time just to focus on science and make sure my students are getting a chance to see me. So that really that helps. And I think, you know, but remember, like, you can't do science 24/7, you know, so I mean, even a bike ride or a run, right, it might just be for my physical health, but I just find that so clears your mind, oftentimes my better ideas, I think, come after those things, and I'm sure that's true for most other scientists as well.
Martha 26:00
Yeah, well, yeah, there's that trope, at least in, you know, the arts and all kinds of innovation of like the, the shower epiphany. Right. Of like, Oh, I've been thinking about this problem, but it's like, you know, a moment in the shower or like while I'm running that the, the answer occurs or the, the light bulb goes off.
But also, yeah, you know, one thing I think is also really useful for people starting out in any field, but especially, you know, the science is, as not a scientist myself, but one of the things that everybody knows is, you know, it doesn't always work. So, what are some things you've learned through, you know, quote unquote failure or, you know, through a project or a problem that you hope to solve, but it just, you know, it all went awry or went a different way than you thought what have been the lessons there?
Scott Snyder 26:47
I always try. I think I feel like probably nine out of ten of our more important discoveries have come that way. And it's not to say that they're quote fully accidental. It's just in other words something that we had intended to have happen didn't happen quite as we thought. But what's been key is to know what actually happened, right?
So someone just said well the reaction didn't work or something decomposed. That is information, but that's not useful information. You know, so often if we can figure out what it is we've actually made, which is this own detective challenge in of itself, which is also its own separate level of excitement.
But if you figure out what you can make, you know, doing something that are often gives you the clues either to do what it is you want to do, or forces you to then think in a different way about what it is you might want to achieve and why I think natural products research is good for chemistry and for development, is in order for me to declare victory, I have to make sure every atom of that structure is exactly where it has to be. None of them can be missing.
And so often times when they're really complex structures, that's really testing the tools that we have. And if I don't have all the tools that I need, if I can't solve it just with some scotch tape and a hammer, I need to develop that new tool to do the, to do the, the thing. So that's, that's where innovation can come about.
Martha 28:00
Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Well, finally, the last question is just a really open ended question, you know, thinking with the, you know, who might be listening to this podcast: What advice would you either give, you know, a younger version of yourself or someone who is just starting out in this field or in the world of academia, potentially looking to become a professor? What advice would you have for someone just starting out?
Scott Snyder 28:26
So I would say if you want to do science, period, do not hesitate to start asking for research opportunities. Do this in high school, do this as early as a first-year student. Do it even if you haven't taken the subject in which you think you might be interested. You have to start somewhere. And in that spirit, you may not get answers from any of the people you might write to via email, et cetera.
That's par for the course, but you know, you just have to get in somewhere. And if you don't like a particular experience, and to be honest, I didn't like my first organic chemistry research experience all that much, think about why that was. And in my case, it was more kind of about just the environment than it was the problem or the field. And then my second experience was great. So I think like use each one as a stepping stone or like a chess piece for your next move to try to then make a decision as to what it is that you want to do.
For academia, when I started I think the main concern I had was tenure, you know. Will I, and the thing is, I would say on the other side of it now is that's probably the wrong thing to worry about, meaning, you know, you're going to be given funds, you're going to given an opportunity to explore your ideas, and so all you can do at the end is try your best.
You know, and if you're excited and passionate about things, I think in general, good things will happen. So don't let that be a deterrent, if that's something you're truly interested in. There's so many examples of people who've left academia to do other things that have been deeply successful and vice versa, you know. So it's not a, you know, I don't like to think that my career is over now in the sense of like, this is what I'm going to necessarily do until I'm 95.
Should I be fortunate to live this long, right? But, you know, there's other opportunities to do things and I have been amazed at how many other things outside of just teaching and research but science based I've had a chance to do through consulting and other things in this role and that's been really exciting too.
Martha 30:15
Well, I think that is. Excellent. And very well-rounded advice. And so yes, thank you, Professor Scott Snyder for your time today.
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